This is a guest post by professional dog trainer, Molly Sumner, CDBC, CPDT-KSA, CBATI. She is an expert when it comes to training primitive dogs and is generously sharing her top 5 tips with us today. She now runs a website for primitive dogs and their owners: https://www.couchwolves.com/
Each night I fall asleep never having to remember to set an alarm clock. As dawn breaks so does the silence. A dull “woooo” sound begins from the crates on the first floor. It slowly gets louder and more punctuated. Then a few more voices join in until my canine alarm clock is going full blast. They are trying to tell me, as they do every morning, that they are awake and would like to go out. The only time I get a vacation from this routine is when I am away at an obedience trial. This is not due to any lack of attendance on their part, because I’m the crazy trainer showing primitive dogs in obedience. In reality it is because the orchestra ring leader is snuggling in bed with me, and when he has bed privileges he doesn’t want to get up till around noon. Lazy bones.
My husband and I share our home with 5 Shiba Inus, a Cattle Dog mix, a Tibetan Mastiff, and a New Guinea Singing Dog. This seems like quite the mix of dogs, but they have one very strong thing in common and that is their primitive nature. To be clear, what I mean when I say “primitive dog” is a breed of dog who’s ancestral primitive nature is still intact. These dogs weave through the traditional breed groups making a pretty tapestry of shapes, sizes, and histories. But when you break them all down, a similar independent, sensitive, wise old soul is back there, ready to tell you that they know better. Some examples of primitive dogs are Africanis, Akitas, Alaskan Malamutes, Armenian Gampr, Basenji, Canaan Dog, Carolina Dog, Chow Chow, Finnish Spitz, Norwegian Elkhound, Pharaoh Hound, Saluki, Samoyed, Shar-pei, Swedish Lapphund and this is just a few. This short list (A longer list is available at the end of this article) gives you an idea of the variety of shapes, sizes, and jobs these dogs have, and their close resemblance to their canine ancestors, and/or selective breeding that has maintained behavioral and physiological traits going back 1000-5000+ years.
Life with primitive dogs is a little different than life with other breeds. I mean sure, they are all dogs. But life with primitive dogs isn’t an owner/pet relationship. It’s more like a roommate agreement. They have their particular wants and needs and if you fail to understand them and find a way to manage them, you will end up with a huge problem on your hands. As my husband likes to say, “You don’t train a primitive dog, you come to an understanding”, and he is absolutely right. Many times trainers label these dogs “untrainable”, “willfull”, “stubborn”, or “dominant”. These labels only come out when a trainer or owner is butting heads with these dogs and their truly honest temperaments. I call it an honest temperament because they are utterly consistent and expect the same from you. They are strong communicators who will use a wide range of calming signals to express themselves. Trainers and owners who ignore them, many times end up on the frustrated end of the leash, or worse, bitten and bloodied.
In no way am I suggesting that primitive dogs are a greater bite risk or more aggressive than other breeds. However, I do believe that their tolerance for rude handling, compulsive training, and rude interactions with other dogs, is significantly less than breeds bred to be more tolerant. We created these breeds prior to the great Victorian genetic manipulation period and were never expected to be the center of attention in a family setting. Instead these dogs had a purpose to either hunt and kills other animals, guard property, pull, or herd. When not in use, these dogs were left to their own devices. They have an innate knowledge of what they want to be happy and usually a good chunk of that is to be left alone. They are also highly sensitive dogs and become intolerant of discomfort quickly. Enough repetitions of this and they will become unwilling to cooperate and eventually aggressive.
Today there is a growing population that enjoys breeds with these independent natures and it is becoming more and more important that trainers become familiar with how to be successful working with these kinds of dogs. I have clients come to me all the time telling me that their previous trainers hated primitive dogs, that they all are highly aggressive, or if it didn’t respond to compulsion based training, it couldn’t be trained. This is heartbreaking for an owner to hear and leads to many of these dogs getting dumped in shelters or left to an existence locked in a laundry room or outside kennel. It is the responsibility of modern progressive dog trainers to embrace the growing interest in these dogs and better understand their behavioral workings, motivations, and needs. Once these are met, owning, managing, and training these dogs is a breeze.
5 Tips for Training Primitive Dogs
1. If The Dog Is Failing – It’s Not Them, It’s You
Sorry but primitive dogs are very honest dogs. This means that if you’re rate of reinforcement is poor or you’re either too challenging or not challenging enough, a primitive dog will blow you off. The more this happens, the less they will want to interact with you and their relationship will continue to diminish until they actively avoid you. Keep training light, short and be ready to jump 2 steps ahead at any point. More than 5 or 6 repetitions is enough to bore most of these dogs and if they make a learning leap go with it. Don’t push them backwards or they will think your “game” is stupid and walk away.
2. You Can’t MAKE a Primitive Breed Do Anything
Molding a primitive dog just teaches the dog to avoid contact with you. Luring teaches the dog to sniff out treats before they are willing to work with you. Shaping and capturing tend to be the most powerful ways to train a primitive dog. They are very intelligent and when given the opportunity to work out operant tasks they will usually rise to the occasion very quickly. But this works both ways. If they know growling and biting is the only way to make you stop doing something they don’t like, they will stop communicating with calming signals and move to lunging whenever they perceive discomfort. If lunging doesn’t stop the discomfort they will escalate to biting. This is why knowing body language and teaching advocacy for what the dog is saying, is essential to a happy primitive dog household.
3. They Know You Better Than You Do
Primitive dogs are always watching and always working out the system. Every move you make and every gesture has been worked out in their heads. They know the difference between a recall that is for reward and a recall that is for the end of play because it is time to go to work. They know when you have a treat and when you don’t. These can lead to frustration for the owner when training “only works when a cookie is present” as well as Separation Anxiety, Resource Guarding, aggression while being handled, and leash reactivity. When called in to deal with behavior problems it is essential that a trainer see all the details prior to a problem situation to see what the dog is actually being cued by. It may be leagues away from where the owner thinks the cause is.
4. Self Interest is Your Guide
In my home I use very colorful terms of endearment with my dogs. It is an affectionate joke. But for many owners it is no joke. It is hard for many owners to get over the sense of self interest these dogs possess. Like I mentioned earlier, these dogs are more your roommate than your pet. These dogs, while they love you, are still out to get whatever it is they want, at whatever means necessary. But this is a powerful tool for trainers. Following methods like Karen Overall’s Deference Protocol, and other styles of, you get what you want, when I get what I want can create very harmonious households. I like to think Premack was channeling a primitive dog when we wrote his Principle because that will get you farther than anything else in your training.
5. Keep Your Heart Open
You can’t get mad at these dogs. They will simply walk away, go pee on something, and take a nap. You have to roll with the punches, appreciate their independent nature, and laugh at your mistakes. Otherwise these dogs will get inside your head and drive you insane. You will need multiple ways to train a behavior and don’t be afraid to start with classical conditioning. Most of the time the reason these dogs are challenging is because they are uncomfortable emotionally, not because they are dumb, wild or stubborn.
About the Author: Molly Sumner CDBC, CPDT-KSA, CBATI
Molly Sumner is a professional dog trainer and behavioral consultant. She lives in Frenchtown, New Jersey with her husband and house filled with primitive dogs, including Journey the worlds first competition titled New Guinea Singing Dog. Molly is the author of multiple articles for Barkpost, as well her blogs and loves giving voice to both her canine and human clients. She is currently working on book about primitive dog training and ownership. You can visit her blog at www.kindredcompanions.com or find her on Facebook.
Additional Resources for Dog Training Primitive Dogs
Reading:
- The Power of Positive Dog Training – by Pat Miller
- From Fearful to Fear Free: A Positive Program to Free Your Dog from Anxiety, Fears, and Phobias – by Marty Becker DVM , Mikkel Becker, Lisa Radosta
- The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs – by Patricia B. McConnell
Tools:
- Pupford Freeze Dried Dog Training Treats
- PoyPet No Pull Dog Harness, Reflective
- 10FT Training Leash for Dogs with Swivel Lockable Hook
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You missed one of the most primitive set of breeds there are, the three ovcharka…
You’re right Kimberly, Ovcharka did get missed and that is my mistake. They will definitely be included in future versions. Good catch.
I was going to say the same thing as well as the majority of the Eastern LGD breeds such as Romanian Mioritic. Buddy of mine has a pair of Ovtcharkas and he likes to say that he and his male “have an understanding”… lol
Funny thing is that Great Pyrenees really don’t qualify as a “primitive breed” as they were part of the French Court over 600 years ago and have been more house dogs than working dogs until recently but they still have a lot of the old traits. Not an easy dog to train and very independent.
Great post! Do you have a link for recommended reading on Karen Overall’s Deference Protocol?
I have had many saluki roommates, and currently have one. I also have a chow/jindo cross. She is much different than the salukis and it took quite a while to work out how to deal with her. She was abuse before coming to me, so she did have fear aggression. She still does but we’ve learned how not to trigger it. Salukis are hard in a different way. I don’t have to worry about aggression but they can be sneaky and they steal. They have great memories, but are not easy to train. They are very affectionate though.
Hi Ann, Sounds like some wonderful dogs. There is definitely variety in these characteristics. For instance one of my Shibas is VERY affectionate and my Singer is also very affectionate with people he knows. But they will never be a lab or gsd when it comes to social interactions or training.
I didn’t mean to imply that my jindo x wasn’t affectionate! She is, but on her terms. We love her to death.
Exactly! On their own terms describes it perfectly.
Great article, by the way! I’m so tired of people that say that the primitive breeds are dumb because they’re hard to train. Try keeping a saluki from getting what they want or keeping an afghan from escaping a yard. I know from people who own huskies that they have similar issues. My Jindo x is very smart as well.
My Norwegian Elkhound is VERY bossy, and very smart. It is interesting having to work with him and sometimes making trades for things to work out. He is very independent natured mostly, except he loves being around his human family and doesn’t do well with seperation. He is even prone to throwing fits if he can’t go to the store or something when family leaves the house. Kenneling is out of the question. Tried that once already and he came back so depressed and underweight. He’s an amazing dog, though. His love is so deep, even if he does seem a bit self-centered sometimes. He is also very communicative, especially with his barks.
Sounds like a very special dog Kristen. Thanks for commenting!
I have a Carolina Dog who is now about 5 years old, and we do a little bit of everything: obedience, agility, freestyle, tricks, barnhunt, lure coursing, and we’re just starting on tracking. Boy, can I relate to a lot of what you say in this article! Her absolute favorite activity is lure coursing, which is total instinct on her part and requires no involvement whatsoever from me. In obedience, she likes the “fun” parts, like retrieving the dumbbell or doing jumps, but we have such a problem with heeling that we’ll never get to Open or Utility to do those fun things! We’ve achieved the Beginner Novice title so far, but the CD title eludes us because of the heeling problem. I’d love to learn how to keep her nose off the floor and keep her moving with me in heel position–WITHOUT using treats! Interestingly, she does pretty well moving with me in freestyle–maybe it’s more fun, or maybe she likes the music in the background–I’m not sure why!
Props to all you do with your dog! Chris is CDSP obedience trials available in your area? They allow food and praise in the ring unerspecfici situations. Check it out. Also look into inserting play into your reinforcement routine. Heel for a few paces and then break out into play. Keep them guessing an keep it light hearted and the heeling will come. Also look at desensitizing the competition ring. My dogs used to always shut down a little in the big scary competition environment so getting them over that can help a lot.
Thanks for the suggestions, Molly! I hadn’t heard of CDSP before; I checked out its website and will keep an eye out for anything happening in my area. And I like your idea of using play in our heeling practice. I just bought a new flat, fuzzy toy that has the crinkly paper sound inside it, since I thought it would remind my Dixie of the lure she loves to chase. I think it does! She is really loving it, and I’m going to start using it as we continue working on heeling. I’ve really got to work on making heeling fun! Thanks again, and I can’t wait for your training book to come out!
Heeling with an independent dog is tough. If it’s not fun, you are sunk. I finally got my terrier through the open obedience heeling at 5 years of age. Our success was due to me learning to make heeling fun. I’m a bean counter by trade, one of the most boring of all human types. How does a boring person make a boring exercise fun? It wasn’t easy. I trained myself first and then worked with my dog. In a nutshell, I keep heeling exercises short, like 30 seconds short with very few repetitions, maybe just 2 a day, and only rarely make the exercise last as long as you would expect in the ring. I use lots of very high value treats and dispense them generously. I use a lot of praise. I incorporate non traditional heeling maneuvers into the exercises like backing, weaving, moving sideways, spinning (both the dog and me), and running so it’s fun for both of us. It looks more like freestyle dancing than heeling, but my dog likes it … for a few minutes. Then it’s time to move on to something else.
It’s encouraging that you finally got your dog to heel, Mark! I do try to keep our practice times short, and I’m working on the “fun” part (though it obviously still needs a lot of work!). We actually do freestyle, and my dog does seem to enjoy that better, so I always try to incorporate a little of that into our heeling practice. But it’s still hard to get her to do anything without treats–she is way more food-driven than toy-driven–but we’re working on it! We have freestyle trials coming up later this month, and I have yet to get her to do the whole routine without treats. I guess we’ll see what happens!
I’ve brought over 10 indian (desi) street dogs and got them adopted in the US….totally primitive breed….very smart (can he headstrong), as you mentioned in the article…but very friendly and healthy. I recommend these dog to anyone.
This is an amazing article and I am so glad I stumbled across it. I have two Catahoula Leopard Dogs and believe me they fall into this primitive category. I live in the very far north of Canada so I had never heard the term before, but reading through your article describes our girls to a T.
Our girls are trained as protection alert animals, so anyone who enters our home has to go through special houla training. In reality it amounts to me talking at length about the mannerisms of our dogs and that they will not behave like most dogs you are used to. We go through special introduction rules, directions on how to approach and speak to them etc, and most importantly, if they don’t want to “talk” to you leave them alone.
These dogs are definitely not your basic lab (we use that reference ALOT). The body language they give off just by walking through a room as they assess each person still fascinates me to this day.
I am a breeder of danes, but in our world, things revolve around the houlas because they are the protectors, they are the peacekeepers and they are the disciplinarians when things are out of order. Lord knows I’ve had stitches enough times to prove it.
I’ve had many people and dog trainers alike tell me they are aggressive, a small portion of those people have been educated and are now in love with them, as far as the others go, I just shrug and thank god that they themselves don’t have such an independent intelligent breed.
would you put coonhounds, foxhounds, & most scent hounds in this category ? they certainly are independent, stubborn, physically tough, smart, sensitive, hard to train, and they don’t really care what you think. most of them are good with other dogs because they understand dogs, often with a kind of detachment. nest-makers, good outdoors, often can live on their own. and pretty good in the house, perhaps because, after the hunt, they ate in the hall with the lords, showing off their good looks? i frequently find myself saying ” these are not regular dogs.”
I love the article. I share a home with a Taiwan dog. She is indeed very sensitive. And very intelligent. She is my first dog. I had no expectations by comparison. I appreciate every article I can find to help me with her. She is amazing. And every day with her is a joy.
thanks so much for this article… my new roommate is an American Indian Dog and everything you say is spot on. He has been so challenging to train but at the same time so easy. I can not make him do a thing he does not want to do but if i keep him interested he picks up on exactly what i am asking….always watching me and one step ahead.